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Ver la versión completa : Circular Logic



Mathutito
27/06/2007, 22:25
Bueno quiero saber la opinion de gente que juega magic, hay un combo con el Mazo UG que se basa con dicha carta CL lo que no entiendo bien es como utilizarlo.

Si yo tengo un Mestizo Salvaje y descarto una carta para que tenga +1/+1 y en ese caso descarto Circular Logic aca viene mi duda:

1- La mando al cementerio y despues puedo pagar su coste de Madness en cualquier momento y la puedo usar

2- En el momento en que me la descarto tengo que pagar Madness pero si esta es la respuesta ¿de que me sirve hacerlo?

Alguien que me pueda ayudar por favor desde ya muchas gracias

<<<GeNoM>>>
27/06/2007, 22:52
mostra la carta. y te digo.
es descartar o sacrificar.? porque sino es diferente.

Mathutito
27/06/2007, 23:13
http://www.magiccorporation.com/scan/torment/circular_logic.jpg

La carta en si es un counter, pero esta habilidad de madness le da algo interesante aunque no entiendo que :S

<<<GeNoM>>>
28/06/2007, 00:02
http://www.magiccorporation.com/scan/torment/circular_logic.jpg

La carta en si es un counter, pero esta habilidad de madness le da algo interesante aunque no entiendo que :S

dice que si descartas una carta de tu mano el costo para ponerla en juego es solo 1 isla.

Mathutito
28/06/2007, 11:12
Discard it = Descartarte esa misma carta xP

Pero para que se entienda mejor consgui otra explicacion mediante la nueva circular logic (la reimprimieron para los nuevos bloques)

If you would discard this card, you may remove it from the game instead. Then play it for its madness cost or put it into your graveyard

Mathutito
28/06/2007, 11:19
David has a Wild Mongrel.
Ariel targets it with Fiery Temper.
David chooses to respond by discarding a Circular Logic to pay for the Mongrel's activated ability. At the time he discards it, he chooses whether or not he wants to invoke the replacement ability of Circular Logic's Madness. He does indeed.
The next thing that goes on the stack is the Circular Logic's triggered ability.
David passes back to Ariel, who also passes.
The stack looks like this (top to bottom):

Circular Logic's Madness trigger
Mongrel getting +1/+1
Fiery Temper targeting Mongrel
The Circular Logic's trigger resolves, setting up the ability.
Ariel is the active player, so she gets priority. She passes, giving David priority. David now has choices. He can:

Play the Circular Logic, targeting Fiery Temper.
Play some other instant or ability.
Pass.
If he chooses (1), he puts the Circular Logic on the Stack, chooses a target and pays its costs. If he chooses (3), the Mongrel's pump ability resolves. If he chooses (2), he once again gets the same choices. He could once again pump the Mongrel with a Madness spell, setting the whole ball rolling again, or he could play some other instant (or ability).

What's important is that if he wants to play the Circular Logic, he must do so before he passes back to Ariel. He can't wait to see if he wants to play some other spell. Assuming he doesn't play the Circular Logic (maybe he doesn't have any blue mana), another trigger goes on the stack when he passes. When that resolves, the Circular Logic is moved from the Removed From Game Zone to the Graveyard. Of course, if he doesn't play the Circular Logic, he's going to have to do something else to have his Mongrel survive.

Let's make it a little more complicated: We'll use the same example, only now Ariel has a Megrim in play. Since mana will become important, let's assume that David has two islands and two mountains left untapped. Both Circular Logic and Megrim trigger when David discards to the Mongrel; the active player's triggers go on the stack first. After he passes, the stack will look like this (once again, from top to bottom):

Circular Logic's Madness trigger
Megrim's trigger
Mongrel getting +1/+1
Fiery Temper targeting Mongrel
But David's not done yet. With four things on the stack, he decides to once again activate the Mongrel, this time discarding a Violent Eruption. Now we have:

Violent Eruption's Madness trigger
Megrim's trigger (B)
Mongrel getting +1/+1
Circular Logic's Madness trigger
Megrim's trigger (A)
Mongrel getting +1/+1
Fiery Temper targeting Mongrel
David passes, and the Violent Eruption trigger resolves. David decides to play the Violent Eruption, so he puts it on the stack, chooses targets, divides up the damage, and pays the 1RR. Now Ariel decides to force his hand: She plays Syncopate for 1 on the Violent Eruption. David doesn't yet have the opportunity to play the Circular Logic, because its Madness trigger has yet to resolve. It's still sitting safely (at least from Ariel's point of view) in the RFG zone; by the time David has the opportunity to play the Circular Logic, the Syncopate will have resolved and not be a valid target. David decides to pay the one. Syncopate finishes resolving.

The Violent Eruption resolves, doing the damage that David divided up. The Megrim B trigger resolves, doing 2 damage to David. The Mongrel goes to 3/3. The Circular Logic trigger resolves. David doesn't have the mana to play the spell, so he passes. Another trigger goes on the stack. Both players are tapped out at this point; so they're not going to add anything else to the stack. The Circular Logic goes to the graveyard. Megrim (A) does 2 damage to David. The Mongrel goes to 4/4. Finally, the Fiery Temper resolves doing three damage to the Mongrel.

I wonder if I could turn this into a Judge Quiz question...With Ariel at four life and David at two...hmm.

Anyway, you can get through even the trickiest parts of Madness by just breaking down the individual steps, and understand which elements of the ability are triggers and which is a replacement. Know the Stack, and know the game.

And that's my Final Judgement.

Sheldon

Me falta traducir xD